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When is the last time an anime or manga prompted you to research a topic? Have you ever found that your personal reading brought additional depths out of either?
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>>115905 (OP) 
I remember trying to read a book that apparently inspired the name of one of the god hand in Berserk. Never got far in it though.
I think Trigun was at least partially why I was interested in revolvers. Rewatching it years later, now knowing the revolver anatomy I really appreciated the details in the anime (e.g. grabbing the cylinder to stop it from spinning thus preventing someone from firing it).
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>>115906
Trigun is one of my favorite-ever Ayylmao series, tbh.
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>>115907
>Ayylmao series
????
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>>115908
They're ayyleums.
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>>115905 (OP) 
I do that a fair bit, actually, though it really depends on the premise of a work and if it has clear real world relevance.

Watched Ankoku Shinwa/The Dark Myth recently. Definitely a work that requires some more knowledge of eastern mythology and religions to get the most out of than an English speaker will have (though I think I've also heard it said that it's rather obtuse even to Japanese viewers unless they've also got the knowledge to make more sense of it). Issue though is, the OVAs have enough dialogue to subtitle as is, and topics that warrant more description dense enough that on-screen translation notes would be pretty unfeasible. While I had some knowledge of certain things already, I still wound up looking up further information as it came up. Apparently ADV did include some sort of notes file on their DVD of it back in the day, but uploaded rips don't seem to bother with those, even as some sort of PDF of screenshots if they were more of a slideshow glossary than something rippable as another video file.
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>>115906
Which book was it, if you don't mind my asking?
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>>115907
>>115909
Are you talking about the art style or is there some sort of ebin conspiracy lore surrounding it?
>>115912
Lol. Never watched the series? They're Aryan aliens.
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>>115912
>inspired by aliens
I think they're more like different visions of idealized humans. Anime is a secular meeting of more iconographic eastern art with western portraiture and cartooning. It shares some proportional similarities with some other iconographic art traditions (such as the enlarged eyes, and similar treatments of noses and mouth proportions), and in trying to talk about anime and 2D vs 3DPD, people intuitively reach for flat out Platonic concepts. IIRC either Socrates or Plato was a sort of eastern-western encounter as well, as somewhere in the dialogues Socrates alluded to being initiated into the Egyptian mysteries and framed the more symbolic Egyptian artwork as superior to Greek art's imitation of the 3D world. Medieval art and the Eastern iconographic tradition also grew out of Greco-Egyptian funerary art, and were themselves, you guessed it, an attempt to portray the higher "2D" reality, but as perceived by the soul of a saint.
Greys, on the other hand, appear in UFO encounter stories as weird, manipulative creeps that flatter what they hope is your modern normalfag worldview before they stick stuff up your butt. They show up in what look to normalfags like science fiction starcraft, and physically appear like superficially more advanced and rational beings: huge eyes, big heads for big brains, atrophied noses, small mouths, de-emphasised bodies in general, and no outdated evolutionary leftovers such as hair. Sometimes they'll tell you fashionable stories mixing biological, intellectual, or spiritual evolution with the oneness of all religions, or pretend to be whatever religious figure they think you'll like most, yet they also have a reputation for quickly screwing off if you start invoking divine help around them. On that note, various ufologists have also noted that a lot of the phenomena around their appearances are either highly similar or outright identical to ones reported in stories of things like fey encounters, ancient sorcerers, and monastic encounters with demons.

Even if you believe greys were completely made up by people fabricating false memories under hypnosis (as a side note, it's common knowledge that Crowley bumped into something very close to one before they began appearing to normalfags), it's noteworthy that they kind of look like a naive normalfag's idea of what an "advanced" being would be, and disguise mythological patterns under science fiction tropes. They're kind of inherently frauds and normalfag bait, if you will.
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>>115911
Ubik
https://www.nothuman.net/images/files/discussion/1/e865ccfafb682b18979e9ca5c712b8db.pdf
Its another very vague memory, but I remember not really liking Philip K Dick in general. Before him I read some classic russian sci fi books and short stories (as well as one book of dune), and in comparison he was ok, but lacked subtlety or smth. It was ages ago. Back then I thought that child killing isn't actually child killing and disliked his anti-abortion short story "pre-persons", nowadays... I'd probably still dislike it because it has subtlety of a nail bat to the face. At that point I think it's better to just write a short essay "against abortion" rather than bother with fictional metaphors that barely work in the first place. Just describing what actually happens would be more graphic, gruesome and absurd than whatever was written there. But other anti-child-killing people liked it, so I dunno. Maybe I should re-read it.

Speaking of politics and subtlety of a nail bat (or not?), but back to anime: watching Kill la Kill after learning some Japanese history made me realize just how dense that story is with references to history. But for some reason nobody seems to write about it, at least not in english. The only thing I can remember off the bat is the scene where the blind guy says "the enemy waits at Honnouji!" and everyone else cringes and says there were holding it in, trying not to say it. That one was actually subtle (for foreigners at least), because its utterly meaningless if you don't know what it's about. There was also something with the DTR robo and Dotonbori. And I think Satsuki's conquest mirrors some conquest in jap history, maybe the unification during sengoku. And there's probably way more that I forgot, and more still that I never recognized.
But this reminded me of one anime that DID make me look up something, Hyouge Mono. At some point I was watching it with a wikipedia open in other tab, checking every other character in it. And good thing I did, because it gets pretty "creative" with how it portrays the history of that era. I can't remember the name of that one guy from the anime, but after looking him, his family name survived from sengoku to like... 1900s I think. It was pretty impressive, I have to find him.
>>115912
>>115913
Vash and his brother are "plants", which the other guy calls aliens. But reading online some people say that plants were originally made by humans, and Vash and Knives were just weird offspring from them. I'd have to re-watch/re-read to see if there were any specifics about what exactly plants were. Personally I don't remember them being called aliens. But they're definitely not humans.
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>>115916
They're actually shown going in and out of their giant ayylmao spaceship.
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>>115917
Really? Where, I don't remember it.
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>>115917
>>115918
Wait, are you not confusing the crashed human spaceship?
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>>115918
>>115919
Its been a few years since I watched the whole thing, so yeah I could be mis-remembering it. But I still have a clear memory of it, so yeah.
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>>115920
Ubik's premise sounds neat, so it might end up being the next science fiction novel I read. The only Philip K. Dick book I've read so far was Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, and like you, enough has happened in my life since then that I'd likely have a different take on Dick's fiction if I revisited him.
Since you bring up Japanese history, are there any books on it that you'd recommend? All I know are isolated fragments that I struggle to recall in any useful way, as I used to be terrible at getting names into my head.
>Hyouge Mono
Yeah, that's definitely going onto the shortlist.
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For me it was actually somewhat inverted.  I had just finished reading this big scholarly book on the history of the Scientific Revolution.  Then along came this very well-researched manga and anime about the various philosophical and theological struggles of the time period.  I appreciated this in a way that few others could have.
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>>115932
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I've been on and off reading the raws of kuneru maruta. It's a very relaxing cooking adjacent manga, but it has these references that come out of left field that have me looking up japanese more about culture, which doesn't really happen with most other stuff I read/watch.
>>115930
>Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Speaking of, does anyone have AI/sentient robot animu recs?
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>>115936
>>115936
>that have me looking up japanese more about culture
Holy stroke, I meant looking up more about japanese culture.
>>115936
>Speaking of, does anyone have AI/sentient robot animu recs?
/robowaifu/ has threads full of the stuff.
https://alogs.space/robowaifu/res/41434.html#41434
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>>115930
>Since you bring up Japanese history, are there any books on it that you'd recommend? All I know are isolated fragments that I struggle to recall in any useful way, as I used to be terrible at getting names into my head.
Unfortunately, none. While I was studying jap in uni we also had history lessons and through constant exposure I remembered a few things, though its spotty. Also had to write some things, and I picked Nobunaga twice throughout those 3 years, so I learned about that period more. And guns in japan, I learned a lot about that too, since I picked that topic for research, which also led back to Nobunaga temporarily. I'd have to find what I wrote, they were rather decent texts.
Wait no, there is one thing I can recommend: Kojiki. Apparently its one of the oldest written things in jap, but more importantly, its culturally relevant. From what I know most japs learn it in school and that's where izanami, izanagi, amaterasu and her mirror etc etc, come from. Also its the mythical origin story of japan, so there's also that. It has a decent pace, and isn't that long as well. After reading it I could appreciate Izanami from Blazblue a little bit more.
And speaking of cultural relevance, at least reading a bit about Sei Shonagon (pillow book) and Murasaki Shikibu (Tale of Genji) is also valuable. I think some Fate-related thing had Hikaru Genji plan, though genderswapped (originally Genji kidnaps a brat, then raises her to be his ideal wife).
Found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcjU6wOWq3w
And of course FGO has both Sei Shonagon and Murasaki Shikibu as servants.
>115932
Is this bait?
Though that shitty manga made some japs interested in Poland, so there's that at least.
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>>115939
Speaking of Fate related things, I have to finally read some Arthurian legends, but because I wanted the oldest sources possible, it was always problematic. Downloaded some pdfs again, maybe I'll get to it this time. If not I think I'll cave in and just read some abridged versions, or more modern takes.
And this is half anime related, but a discussion on /monster/ made me look into origins of genies in popular culture and that was pretty fun. Reading about that makes me respect Shantae even less, because it does absolutely nothing with the genie premise.
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>>115939
God, I love Honjou raita's style and bodies.
These are Fate's Sei Shonagon and Murasaki Shikibu btw.
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>>115939
No issue. Studying bits and pieces of it in university sounds pretty enjoyable, especially when it's alongside a study of the language.
Kojiki sounds like a good starting point, as those kinds of foundational myths do influence later history and culture enough that it's a bit foolish to ignore them. I'll likely order a copy of it today and look through my 70s-era Encyclopaedia Britannica's articles on the subject to at least give me a skeleton to flesh out. The Pillow Book I already have laying around (mostly unread outside flipping through it a little, very charming work), and the Tale of Genji...I'll get around to sometime.
>>115940
If you do get around to them, I'll warn you that Sir Thomas Mallory's Le Morte d'Arthur is often considered drier reading than much of his source material (can confirm from reading a little Mallory), even if his compilation is the one that later compilations and retakes usually riff off of. I've only dipped my toes in old Arthurian literature, but man, is it a neat genre. There's so much variety in it that you can pick up basically whatever sounds interesting and get neat takes on characters that aren't thought much about nowadays, to the point that you can even get odd tangential works like the 13th century story of a tomboy knight whose father disguised her as a man so she could inherit his land, which is followed by her adventures, a batshit queen accusing her of rape when her advances are rebuffed, and a particularly weird portrayal of Merlin.
>>115938
Speaking of /robowaifu/, their crossposting on >>>/mecha/ has been neat. One of their crossposters is flat out trying to build a mech in his shed using cheap, easily-sourced parts, and posts somewhat delayed videos of his progress on https://www.youtube.com/@NyeMechworks/
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>>115939
>Is this bait? Though that shitty manga made some japs interested in Poland, so there's that at least.
Interesting, haven't heard this take before.  Why do you think it's shitty exactly?  Was it too deep for you anon?
>>115944
>I'll likely order a copy of it today 
Why not just grab a pdf?
>and look through my 70s-era Encyclopaedia Britannica's articles on the subject to at least give me a skeleton to flesh out
Man, I should also invest in some older encyclopedias. That said, you don't really need a skeleton, as its paced pretty well. Though (similarly to Bible) it gets kinda boring after the foundational myth ends, and ancient politics/history begin.
>I'll warn you that Sir Thomas Mallory's Le Morte d'Arthur is often considered drier reading than much of his source material
>source material
You mean even older texts? And they're less dry than something something which is from 1400s to begin with?
>you can even get odd tangential works like the 13th century story of a tomboy knight whose father disguised her as a man so she could inherit his land, which is followed by her adventures, a batshit queen accusing her of rape when her advances are rebuffed, and a particularly weird portrayal of Merlin.
Absolutely please elaborate.
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>>115949
>Why not just grab a pdf?
It's the sort of book I like having a physical copy of instead of depending on electricity or a working e-reader for. I'm also intentionally trying to build up a good library that a hypothetical future family could use, and which I could pass down someday.
>Man, I should also invest in some older encyclopedias. That said, you don't really need a skeleton, as its paced pretty well. 
Ah, nah, I meant for Japanese history in general.
An old encyclopedia set is worth having around if you ever find a good deal at a secondhand store, provided you have the shelf space and actually use it. They're a massive waste of space if you don't, and fell out of favour with the rise of the internet, but I find that the increasing enshittification of search engines and censorship of sites like Wikipedia makes them surprisingly useful at times. The article quality is also generally high, and even where they're outdated, there are fun upsides like getting to read a contemporary description of Yugoslavian life with speculation on how it could evolve past Tito's death.
>You mean even older texts? And they're less dry than something something which is from 1400s to begin with?
A lot of Malory's (I misspelled his name the first time) stylistic dryness isn't so much the fault of his work's age as it is his own. His identity is unclear, but he may have been a random criminal who compiled Le Morte d'Arthur because he was bored in prison. In trying to summarize it all, he naturally had to leave out a lot, or choose between different versions of stories or characters, and a lot of what he left out adds additional flavour.
The only one I've gotten around to reading in full so far was Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, which definitely isn't dry. The premise is so Celtic that it sounds boneheaded to anyone else (big green dude walks into King Arthur's court, demands that someone chop off his head with an axe so he can chop off his attacker's in return the following year, and calls everyone chicken for turning him down until Sir Gawain steps up), but how it builds off that challenge and how it handles Gawain's journey to his impending doom and the antagonist are so memorable that I can't help but love it.
>Absolutely please elaborate.
I haven't read it yet, but it's named Le Roman de Silence, and it was discovered in a box labelled "unimportant documents" alongside a letter from Henry VIII.
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No, I kind of do the opposite actually. I look for series that might match my interests, for example I was looking for anything written by someone with experience or knowledge in actual fencing (eastern or western).
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>>115951
That's a pretty neat approach. How well has that translated to good swordfights so far?
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>>115950
>It's the sort of book I like having a physical copy of instead of depending on electricity or a working e-reader for. I'm also intentionally trying to build up a good library that a hypothetical future family could use, and which I could pass down someday.
On one hand I get it, but on another if electricity goes down, there will be way bigger problems than preserving physical copies of translations of foundation myths of a country on the other side of the world.
Also digital formats allow for easy redundancy. Most things survived to today moreso thanks to redundancy than meticulous archiving and preservation (though those were also very important, especially before paper made from wood was invented).
But aside for all that, you can read a pdf now, and decide if its really worth a place on your shelf. Good ol' "try before you buy".
>I find that the increasing enshittification of search engines and censorship of sites like Wikipedia makes them surprisingly useful at times.
Censorship was the main reason I thought about some set. Another was that they're unchanging. Once printed the information on it just stays.
>big green dude walks into King Arthur's court, demands that someone chop off his head with an axe so he can chop off his attacker's in return the following year, and calls everyone chicken for turning him down until Sir Gawain steps up
I think I want to read that one. Any good link for it?

Continuing the trend of anime related british isles, Fate's lancer made me look up Cu Chulainn, read his wikipedia pages, and listen to this song like a 100 times. Literally (partially because at work I use very limited playlists. And its also just a very good song).
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=XqyEADY_20Y
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>>115952
Wolfsmund is written by some kind of autist that has clearly studied historical fencing manuals. That anime Maria the Virgin Witch also had some pretty grounded sword fights, strangely enough. On the eastern side the visual novel Hanachirasu was written by a kendo autist that goes pretty in depth into the techniques and overall philosophy.
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>>115953
I'm under no delusions of running a library that'll fully survive a collapse. You're right though in that reading a bit of it online or in a PDF first is probably a better idea.
>I think I want to read that one. Any good link for it?
On my end, I just read Brian Stone's translation after finding it at a used bookstore. You'll likely want a translation as well, as its dialect of Middle English is more removed from what became Early Modern English than Chaucer's. The Internet Archive has Nielson and Kirtlan's translations, while Standard Ebooks has S.O. Andrew's. I can't say I'm at all familiar with these, so you're likely best off sampling all three, seeing which you like most, and going from there (or finding a PDF of a newer translation that I missed). 

Nielson: https://archive.org/details/sirgawainthegree00neiluoft/
Kirtlan: https://archive.org/details/sirgawaingreenkn00kirtuoft/
Andrew: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/anonymous/sir-gawain-and-the-green-knight/s-o-andrew

>Cu Chulainn
Good shit.
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If I had my way, I'd just send you Stone's translation, but I haven't found a PDF for it yet.
>>115905 (OP) 
look up the "A Manga Guide to -" series of mangas. A good intro to any maths or science field you're just entering.
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Pic related unexpectedly helped me get a lot more out of Berserk. It sort of makes sense when you remember that they're both depicting the same thing in the grand scheme (the final breakdown of a civilization and end of a cosmic cycle). Miura definitely looked at least a little into Hinduism, given the Kushan invasion and his portrayal of obscure pajeet weapons, and the manga also uses just slightly too many ideas from occultfaggotry and perennialism to be coincidence. What makes it really weird is that it's uncanny just how well Guenon's cosmology (in the later portions of his book, anyways) maps onto not only Berserk's cosmology, but even important post-Golden Age plot points, Griffith's kingdom, and Griffith himself.
I doubt Miura read Guenon, or that Guenon had a Japanese translation. I just suspect that Miura leaned on similar reference material to what Guenon drew on, and thus created something very close to the lower half of Guenon's world.
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>>115956
>first pic
Oh, its THAT old English, so old you can even feel some of those germanic roots. But yeah, borderline unreadable. Thanks for the links, I'll look through them.
>>115961
>The_Reign_of_Quantity
I had this pdf downloaded like a year ago, I remember seeing it before, maybe even on this very board, but never got around to reading it. Was this the book that argued "quantity is quality"?
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>>115963
Quite the opposite. It's based off that common observation that the modern age increasingly prefers quantity over quality, along with the running themes of how modern people like to either pretend quality isn't real or mix it up with quantity in weird ways.
The writer takes that and asks, what are quality and quantity anways? To answer this, he surveys the definitions given by a bunch of traditional religions and ancient philosophy, goes into a lot of seemingly pedantic detail  which is very relevant, but also probably an attempt to filter out a lot of readers, and builds up a sort of cosmology or model of manifestation out of all this. He then asks, what are the implications of all this? What does it mean to be in a world that's moving away from quality towards quantity?
What follows quickly goes from sort of mundane to the most nightmarish thing I've ever read. It's cosmic horror in the sense that it's like the book a Lovecraft character goes mad from reading, because it tells him things about the world he cannot handle. Reading too much Guenon kind of does that to people who aren't grounded in the life of a traditional religion. Some people in some places find his work helpful, yet others really don't, so I try to be cautious on actually recommending his books to people.
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>>115967
>What follows quickly goes from sort of mundane to the most nightmarish thing I've ever read. It's cosmic horror in the sense that it's like the book a Lovecraft character goes mad from reading, because it tells him things about the world he cannot handle.
I remember feeling like that after reading Uncle Ted's book, everything he wrote seemed right on the money, including the conclusions, but the conclusions were really unsettling for me.
Though your post makes the book seem more interesting than the blurbs. I'll probably give it a shot though.
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isekai in general has made me want to research older civilisations and religious practices. though my reasoning for this is because isekai world building is usually so fucking shit that I refuse to believe the author has done any research and I want to learn more to know for certain that the world building is shit. I especially despise how everyone uses magical circles to portray any magic system (after further research I did find out that people used to believe that words and letters could bring forth blessings and whatnot so I guess it's not incorrect, but I still hate magical circles)
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>>116087
>isekai in general has made me want to research older civilisations and religious practices. though my reasoning for this is because isekai world building is usually so fucking shit that I refuse to believe the author has done any research and I want to learn more to know for certain that the world building is shit.
Based, lmao.
>I especially despise how everyone uses magical circles to portray any magic system
Magical circles are cool tho. Shame most of the time they're only aesthetics, but at least they're neat aesthetics.
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>>116087
The especially fun part of doing that kind of research is that not only does it help you spot bullshit, but it really helps you appreciate when the author gets something right, especially when it's subtle.
Given how much of isekai is at least loosely riffing off Medieval Europe, my go-to starting point for anything medieval is C.S. Lewis' The Discarded Image: An Introduction to Medieval and Renaissance Literature. It attempts to lay out the overall medieval cosmology as it was generally perceived by artists and average people, and introduce the reader to some of the less obvious late Greco-Roman and early Christian influences on it. Given how interconnected the medieval model of the universe was, it inevitably covers fields such as medicine, astrology, alchemy, the fey, magic's relation to language, and so on along the way. Not only that, but it does an excellent job of conveying just how differently many of these things were viewed back then from how they are now, and drawing out subtleties which are easily overlooked by the contemporary reader.
If you want to spot places where a medieval fantasy writer (eastern or western) truly gets the medieval mindset and how they viewed the world, I can't recommend this book enough. It won't help with the material past the way >>115954's familiarity with fencing helps him spot mangaka who know their historic fencing techniques, but it will help you see where a story's treatment of more fantastic elements are just modern tropes and where they're riffing off their ancestral forms.
Replies: >>116134
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>>116094
Okay, that was a slightly drunk recommendation, and the average isekai likely draws on almost nothing from it because the genre is so heavily based off JRPG fantasy. Even Escaflowne, the best isekai I've seen so far, instead riffs off far older myths and the relationship between scientism and western occultism.
I still stand by that book as helpful for better medieval fantasy works though, and it unfortunately does help highlight when an author is completely oblivious to the medieval worldview. The big exception is Frieren, which parallels a different strand of it than the one Lewis focuses on.
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